Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  128

  Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

  why don't the jw's do the same?.

  from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

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  Sea Breeze

  So what do you think was "absent from the body"?
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  128

  Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

  why don't the jw's do the same?.

  from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

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  Sea Breeze

  2 Cor. 5:8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

  
  

  
  

  @VH7

  
  

  If what you argue is true, Can you explain how the disciples of the apostles could have gotten everything so “wrong” so quickly?

  
  

  This is powerful data indicating that people simply believed Jesus.

  The burden is really on you to explain their testimonies away. Seems pretty hard to do.

  See Below:

  
  

  
  

  From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130 AD)

  Barnabas, was the associate of Paul who is mentioned in the Book of Acts. The letter was written to new converts to Christianity:

  The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment.

  From Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD)

  Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John, and succeeded the Apostle Peter as the City Overseer of Antioch. He wrote a number of important letters to believers in churches in the area:

  Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)

  From Clement of Rome (150 AD)

  Clement was the City Overseeer of Rome from 88 to 98AD, and his teaching reflects the early traditions of the Church. “Second Clement” reportedly a recorded sermon, and Clement discusses the nature of Hell:

  If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (“Second Clement” 5:5)

  But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’ (“Second Clement” 17:7)

  From “The Martyrdom of Polycarp” (155 AD)

  This work was written by an Early Church Leader (unknown author) and is dated very early in the history of Christianity. It describes the death of Polycarp, a disciple of the Apostle John, and also describes early teachings of the church:

  Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (“Martyrdom of Polycarp” 2:3)
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  86

  New light on shunning?

  by Mikejw in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.

  he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .

  what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.

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  Sea Breeze

  If my family hadnt spoken to me for years and then suddenly contacted me because they were told it was ok, I would tell them to go f%^K themselves.

  This has already happened to me. My dad called 5 years after hiding the fact that my mom was sick and allowed her to die a horrible death from starvation. He said he was afraid she might die without blood, so in his mind it was better to let her starve in hospice instead of allowing a fairly routine surgery. She was 82 with a weak heart… but still…. Really?

  After he called, I looked on this board and found out there was a recent WT directive to reach out to shunned family members to see if they wanted to return.

  Like I would want to return to that death camp.
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  15

  Former Kingdom Hall is now a Swaminarayan Temple!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this former kingdom hall is now a hindu swaminarayan temple!

  to the far right of the picture, the two tower pillars are obvious by the red and green flags.

  https://pdfupload.io/docs/d8e6115a .

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  Sea Breeze

  More Christian bigotry Sea Breeze?

  Only one way Nicolaou:

  John 3: 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

  For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, - ​1 Timothy 2:5

  He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. - 1 John 5: 12
  
  

  
  
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  38

  the toll of being PIMO

  by enoughisenough in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for those of you who are pimo, how do you feel it may be effecting your mental and physical health?

  is it easy to pretend to be what you are not?

  how do you feel about falsely supporting the pimi which builds them up and therefore an org you don't believe in?

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  Sea Breeze

  I never stepped into another KH after the generation false prophecy that was abandoned in the Nov. 1995 WT. I took a few years to sort things out and then took a position.
  
  While not PIMO, I was definitely hiding the fact that I wasn't a beliver in watchtowerism any longer. During this time (8 years). I was a man without an identity, lost.... only a shadow of a person.
  
  My heart goes out to each and every xjw because most go through something like this.
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  15

  Former Kingdom Hall is now a Swaminarayan Temple!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this former kingdom hall is now a hindu swaminarayan temple!

  to the far right of the picture, the two tower pillars are obvious by the red and green flags.

  https://pdfupload.io/docs/d8e6115a .

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  Sea Breeze

  Makes sense for the devil to pool his resources.
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  Sea Breeze

  @Elmer

  No, he was appointed elder at 19. He was married at 18 and had a baby very soon therafter. He had a natural gullible look on his face nearly all the time. The kind of look where you could just tell he would do anything he was told. In other words, elder material. And, he spoke Spanish. May have been a Spanish speaking congregation where he was appointed.

  
  
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  7

  Former Soviet Country Witnesses who Rebelled Against the GB

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i remember the story going around the traps (here, perhaps?

  ) a couple of decades ago, about a country formerly behind the iron curtain.

  when the soviet union crumbled, the jws were able to re-establish contact with the underground jw movement.

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  Sea Breeze

  The story, as I remember it, is that the JWs of that country were still practicing watchtowerism as it was when they were still in contact with Bethel, which was when Rutherford was still alive and kicking!

  Might be a nice sociological study subject regarding the claim that a lot of JW's from that era were real jackasses by:

  1. putting their foot in the door when the homeowners tried to leave

  2. playing loud obnoxious phonographs on front porches and...

  3. blasting "sound car" talks in neighborhoods

  Reminds me of that poor deceived Japanese soul that stayed in the jungle for 40 years after WW2 ended because he was taught that the allies were canibals (worldly people)
  
  
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  30

  Internal Watchtower Statistics Re: Disfellowshipping and Shunning

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the wt have a person/department/section tasked with compiling data and analysing it statistically.

  or have they started doing something like that now that they are hiring external consultancies?.

  i ask the question because i'm wondering if such studies and statistical analysis would show any link between the harshness of the disfellowshipping policy as it is applied and the dropout rate of people within the organisation who have just had enough.. in previous threads it has been pointed out that the old approach isn't effective any more.

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  Sea Breeze

  I have always heard that the disfellowshipped account for around 1% of publishers. 80,000 disgruntled and alienated people per year adds up pretty fast.... even if you consider the return rate at 50%. And, half or more of those are probably PIMO.

  So, the number of disfellowshipped and PIMO's due to the DF poilcy could very well be more than active members in just a 15 year period.

  The imploding we are seeing is self-inflicted. I told my brother once that the organization will one day close because they will announce that they have disfellowshipped nearly everyone. It was a joke, but he was oddly amused by the statement. I often wonder how many lives he has destroyed in his nearly 50 year career as an elder. He was appointed at age 19.
• 
  128

  Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

  why don't the jw's do the same?.

  from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  How else are we to physically experience pain otherwise unless we get a new body?

  @Halcon

  All we have to go on is the word of God. Since it was freely quoted as true from a man who resurrected himself from the dead, I have sound reason to believe it. He says dead souls can do and experience lots of things..... without a body.

  Rev 6 - And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

  10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

  11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

  Souls can remember, talk, reason, ask questions, feel emotion, justice and rest. Presumably they can feel pain as well as comfort.